Opening
Announcer (00:03)
There is no shortage of information about leadership. The challenge is knowing what deserves our attention.
Welcome to The Leadership Signal from Thunderbird Leadership Consulting, where leaders, thinkers, innovators, and changemakers explore what matters beneath the noise and what it means for how we lead.
Introducing The Leadership Signal
Rhonda Williams (00:23)
Welcome to today’s episode of The Leadership Signal. Really excited to be joining my partner and dear friend and longtime colleague, Dorothy Sisneros, for today’s introduction conversation.
My name is Rhonda Y. Williams, and I am a partner and I serve as the Chief Strategy Officer for Thunderbird Leadership Consulting.
Dorothy Sisneros (00:46)
My name is Dorothy Sisneros. I serve as the CEO and actually the founder, one of the founders, of Thunderbird Leadership Consulting, and it’s great to be with you on today’s program.
Rhonda Williams (00:58)
Thank you, Dorothy. It’s wonderful to have you, and I am excited to start this phase of our journey where we’re launching a leadership podcast called The Leadership Signal.
I want to talk about that, but before I get to that, I have a question that I would like to start off with for you. Okay. As the founder of Thunderbird Leadership Consulting, I want you to rewind the calendar and think back to when you began and when you started.
What were you seeing from leaders and organizations that said to you that this work was necessary?
Why This Work Was Necessary
Dorothy Sisneros (01:34)
Rhonda, that’s a great question.
And rewinding 25 or more years of being in leadership roles, what I saw, and I still continue to see today, is that you have leaders at all levels of the organization asking for development. Development and skills so that they could be more effective in their jobs.
They wanted to be part of a more inclusive workplace, one that focuses on creating engaged workforces, optimized workforces where people can do their best work.
And, you know, fast-forward 25 years, I think the ask is still the same. What we’re seeing is that people are people. Over 25 years, they want to do their best work, and that’s certainly what I wanted to do, is capitalize on the fact that people come to work to do a good job.
And if we provide the space and resources and environment for them to do so, they will excel, and they will even exceed our expectations of what we do.
Rhonda Williams (02:32)
Well said.
Dorothy Sisneros (02:34)
Couple that with the fact that you can work with individual leaders, as we did in the beginning, and then evolve into this understanding that it’s the organization that needs to be tended to.
So it does provide, from the top and across all levels, that opportunity for folks to engage. But they have to have the environment that is conducive to that.
So that’s our work, is working with organizations to make sure that they provide the best space for their people.
Rhonda Williams (03:07)
Hmm. It’s really powerful, Dorothy, when we think about the work that we do and our intention and our commitment to serve organizations at the very highest level, to meet them where they are.
I want to say thanks to you and Amy Steinbinder for giving us an incredible foundation to understand how to do this work in a way that’s impactful and enduring. Right?
Fast-forward, it has brought us here 25 years later, and look where we are.
Why a Leadership Signal Conversation Now?
Dorothy Sisneros (03:46)
So, Rhonda, yeah, great, great summary of what I said and where we’re going.
And I think in terms of, as you look at the leadership environment today, what is it that feels different, and why do you think it’s time for a Leadership Signal conversation?
Rhonda Williams (04:03)
I see so much happening, and you and I have an opportunity to talk about this frequently.
We look at our clients, we support them, we connect with them, we work with them, and we talk about this incredible convergence of forces that’s happening today.
Everything from expansion of remote teams to this rapid pace of expanding technology and how we integrate that into our teams.
How do we reorganize our systems, structures, and processes to do our best work?
All of this, to me, says in the midst of this incredible complexity and change, leaders have their heads down. They’re doing their work, they’re navigating their operations.
And do they often have time to press pause and to say, “What’s happening underneath?”
Here’s what we see on the top, but how do we get underneath to understand the impact and the value of what we’re experiencing from all of these converging forces today?
And that’s what I see, is the pace of change and everything that our leaders are dealing with. I’ve not seen anything like it in my lifetime, and I’m not sure we will again.
And so, again, considering how you described our work and what we do and our desire to support and serve, how do we help and give them an opportunity to hit that pause button so that they can talk through things with us alongside of them?
Dorothy Sisneros (05:48)
Well stated, Rhonda. Well stated.
I would just add to that that, as we’ve evolved, and organizations are evolving as well, the one red thread that’s cut through the 25 years of the work is that leaders have to have a sense of trust in you and me and our team to be able to say, “I trust you that you will help guide us. You will help us discover where we’re going.”
And then we can work with them over time to make adjustments in the way they work.
But trust is at the core of what we do every day and in every relationship that we have with our leaders and our clients across the industries that we work in.
Rhonda Williams (06:30)
Yeah, I agree, Dorothy, and trust is one of those that feels a bit intangible, but you know it when it’s there.
Mm-hmm. You see it, you can feel it, and it shows up in the outcomes. Right?
And the way that we connect with our clients and the way that they trust us and value our expertise and what we’re bringing to the conversation is really important.
So I absolutely love that.
What Is a Leadership Signal?
Rhonda Williams (06:30)
Dorothy, when you think about the signal, right, and the name of the podcast is The Leadership Signal, when you think about a signal in leadership, what comes up for you?
What does that bring to mind?
Dorothy Sisneros (07:12)
Well, first of all, the name of this podcast, The Leadership Signal, is perfect for the times.
What I find is that we have to be more thoughtful and intentional about sensing the environment, talking and listening to people, and hearing what they’re not saying and what they’re intimating to us, and having that intuition and knowing that we need to trust that.
And, frankly, taking the time to reflect.
But the sensing and then seizing opportunity is what the leadership signal is.
It’s about finding our way. It’s about making sure that there is a path forward and that folks, leaders, team members, employees feel like they’re part of the path forward.
That’s that inclusivity that we talk about, and it’s not a bad word to say inclusive.
Because people want to be included. They want to belong to something bigger than them.
And that’s, this leadership signal is going to get us there.
Rhonda Williams (08:18)
As I was listening to you speak about the signals, I think about something that occurs all the time in our work, and that is we’ll have a conversation with a group of leaders, and they don’t overtly say what’s really happening.
They speak to their experience.
And one of the things that we then do is we translate.
So they give us the signal, and then we help translate that into: here’s our experience with what that means and how that plays out and how that can be operationalized.
And so that signal that you speak of is often very subtle, not overt in any way, but it’s a part of the experience that we have every single day.
Dorothy Sisneros (09:06)
Perfect, Rhonda.
And I think about the way that we do our work, is that we hear from so many leaders within an organization that we have that opportunity to hear what’s being said there.
But then we’re able, because we work in so many different organizations, is we become that cross-pollinator and that catalyst to say, “Well, here’s what we’ve seen in another organization.”
And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had somebody ask me, “Have you seen this before?”
So that they don’t feel like it’s only happening to them.
And that there’s that sense of, “Okay, then there is a way forward for us to be this.”
The Voices We Want to Bring Forward
Dorothy Sisneros (09:06)
And Rhonda, when we think about the conversations that we’re going to have in this podcast, what are some of the voices that you’re going to bring forth into this conversation about the leadership signal?
Rhonda Williams (09:57)
I’m really excited about our opportunity to bring together a robust group of diverse voices to the conversation.
Voices that include some of our current clients and also some folks that are in the day-to-day operations working, navigating the complexity, navigating the change today.
I’m excited about speaking with them to hear what those experiences are.
I’m also excited to speak to thought leaders and those who are on the front lines helping us to innovate and understand where we are and where we’re going based on some of the signals that are coming forward.
I’m excited to speak to some of the educators and other innovators who help us operationalize what we’re seeing and help us with the sense-making part of, what does this mean?
Right? We see and experience this, but what does it actually mean?
And then also I’m very excited to speak to those on the front lines of culture and people.
I want to speak to those who are navigating how people are handling this convergence of forces and what culture is like today and how it is evolving in everyday terms.
I’m very excited about those powerful conversations that we’re going to have on upcoming episodes of The Leadership Signal.
Dorothy Sisneros (11:34)
Excellent, Rhonda.
It’s going to be exciting because what you’re speaking to, that it is not just CEOs or presidents or chancellors of organizations that we work with, but it’s staff members who get it every day, who see the benefit of the work that’s being done at other levels.
And they can connect the dots to how they can make a difference in that organization and commit to the mission and the vision of the organization and just feel a part of something they belong, again, to what it’s doing.
So, very, very nice to hear you say that those are the folks that we’re going to bring into this discussion.
What’s Ahead for Thunderbird
Rhonda Williams (12:08)
Absolutely.
In the midst of these evolving times, there is a lot of exciting opportunities and things that are happening for Thunderbird Leadership Consulting.
What are some of the things that you’re most excited about right now?
Dorothy Sisneros (12:26)
Excellent question, Rhonda.
Well, you know, when you’ve been doing this for 25-plus years, you know, 20 with Thunderbird and prior to that, we’ve been a successful business over that period of time because I can tell you intentionally we have reimagined and reformed Thunderbird into another company to meet the needs of the time.
Because who we were 25 years ago, well, we still have some foundational methodologies in the framework.
We had to evolve. We had to change. We had to get with the times.
And so what I’m most excited about is that we’re at that point right now where it’s calling for us to be different, to take what we have and sense what’s going on in the environment and transform ourselves into the future so that we can meet the needs of this future generation.
That’s the exciting part for me.
There’s so many other things, but that’s the place, is that you have to reinvent yourself over and over and over again to sustain a business that’s been around for 25-plus years.
Rhonda Williams (13:32)
Absolutely, Dorothy.
And that’s where our clients find themselves as well. Isn’t that interesting?
Yes. In that we are right there with them and understanding how to reinvent ourselves so that we are able to continue supporting at the level that we want to serve organizations.
So that’s a very exciting place to be.
Dorothy Sisneros (13:54)
Well, in so many ways we mirror organizations.
We transform, we reimagine, we reform. We just do the things that we talk to them about. We live it ourselves.
So what about you, Rhonda? What’s exciting about the future from your perspective and what we’re doing at Thunderbird?
Rhonda Williams (14:11)
Yeah, I’m really excited, Dorothy, about exactly what you mentioned, our opportunity to reinvent ourselves sort of in that mirror image of where our clients are as well.
We have a couple of really great things happening on the horizon.
One of them is the Thunderbird Laureates of Leadership Awards that will be upcoming.
And you all will get to hear more about that soon, but I’m very excited about being able to recognize leaders for not only operational excellence, but also creating the conditions that allow that excellence to emerge and to occur.
So I’m very excited about that.
I’m also excited about our continued focus on understanding organizations and helping them understand how they can strengthen and improve performance.
Our organizational capability assessment, others will get to hear more about that as well.
But those are some of the ways that we are operationalizing and continuing to support clients that I’m very excited about.
Dorothy Sisneros (15:19)
Right. So keeping the core of what we are, but realizing that it’s time to transform into more.
And there are more needs out there, and I think that’s what’s fun and exciting about the future.
Signals Leaders Should Pay Attention To
Rhonda Williams (15:33)
Dorothy, as you think about everything that we’ve discussed, what you’ve been seeing and experiencing from our clients and this time, this complex and challenging time that we’re in, what is one signal that you think leaders should be paying attention to today?
Dorothy Sisneros (15:53)
Wow. There is a signal, but the signal is the fact that it’s called convergence, and you mentioned it at the beginning of the discussion.
Is that we think that there are issues that are happening and we think that we should tackle it and deal with that issue and deal with that issue and deal with that issue, and we create plans around these 10 issues.
And what we’re not realizing is that they’re all integrated and interrelated, and we need to have a solution that addresses them as a whole in a holistic way.
They’re not separate.
And in order for organizations to survive, we have to think about, how are we going to emerge differently to be able to continue to do the great work that we do?
Because they’re not isolated. They’re not different.
This is a point in our time, in our history, that we have never been at.
And even my age, your age, we’ve never seen a time like this, where there’s so many factors that are happening all at once.
And how do we help each other and our clients understand that it could be many, many, many solutions?
So that’s, for me, Rhonda, the signal that I’m listening to.
How do we continue to sense that and realize that we can’t just be playing whack-a-mole, you know, and thinking that we’ve knocked that one out?
Well, wait, there’s 10 more.
Because at some point they’re all connected, like the roots in an aspen tree. They’re all connected.
What about for you, Rhonda? What’s the one signal that you’re kind of paying attention to as you think about the future?
Rhonda Williams (17:32)
Wow, I love convergence because it is such an important part of what we’re experiencing today.
I think for me, the signal that I am truly paying attention to is an intersection.
And it’s the intersection of change, technology, and people.
There’s so much attention being paid to all of the changing dynamics around us and the technology that’s emerging.
Where are we holding the people?
Because through all of this, people have to help us get there.
And ultimately, they will continue to be the foundation of our success.
And that is the signal: being careful not to leave them behind in this race.
As we focus on all of the projects and all of the things that need to be done, how do we support our people and help them expand and grow and feel supported and included in this change that we’re experiencing and navigating today?
That’s the one signal for me.
People as the Through Line
Dorothy Sisneros (18:48)
Rhonda, excellent.
Now, when you rewind what the first question you asked me is, that why did we get in this business?
It was about people.
Mm-hmm.
And people are the through line through everything that we’ve done over 25 years and will continue to be.
I was having a great conversation just the other day with a CEO and, you know, some challenges within his executive team.
And we talked about this whole concept that Harvard Business Review and authors have put out about the service-profit chain.
And on one side are people, and the other side is finance.
And where you start that equation is really important for people to understand because if you believe that it’s all about finance, you’re going to lead differently.
If you believe that it’s about people, you’re going to lead differently.
You’re not going to get to the same place with different approaches.
On the other hand, it’s important to recognize that that person’s over here and you’re over here, and how do you come to center?
So that you can find a commonality to get you there because each of you has experience and talents to be able to do that.
But there was that moment in his eyes. He went, “I get it. I get it. We see things from a different lens.”
So we’re sensing, we’re doing things from a different point of reference.
And until we have that conversation about, “This is how my leadership is and your leadership is,” where are we going to find them at?
So it’s applying what we know of common sense, but it is about people.
You said it perfectly.
So thanks, Rhonda, for engaging us in this discussion and knowing that 25 years later we’re still talking about the most important asset in the organization, and it’s our people.
Closing
Rhonda Williams (20:33)
Absolutely, Dorothy. I could not have said it better.
And thank you for joining me for our inaugural conversation around The Leadership Signal.
And I look forward to all of the wonderful conversations that we’re going to have on many episodes to come.
Dorothy Sisneros (20:48)
Thank you, Rhonda.
Rhonda Williams (20:52)
Thanks for listening to The Leadership Signal.
Until next time, keep noticing what matters, questioning what it means, and listening for the signal beneath the noise.
Learn more at ThunderbirdLeadership.com.